Episode 002: Danny McMillan | Breaking Into Merch By Amazon

  • Breaking into Merch by Amazon

  • How to make your first Sale

  • Advanced Tips to Beat your Competition

Resources Mentioned

Danny McMillan | Breaking Into Merch By Amazon Interview Summary

YouTube Video

Transcription

  • Extra Valuable Info is Highlighted in Green
  • Mateen, (Interviewer): Bold and Italic Text
  • Danny McMillan: Normal Text

Before we dive into the whole process, tips and tricks etc, let’s start with a background. What did you do at school, did you study marketing?

If we’re going to back many moons ago, I actually left school without an education. I wasn’t very ‘good’ at school and I had a few difficulties for example when I was 15 I had half a tonne of plasterboard collapse on me in the British library of London so I was on life support machine so I didn’t finish school, I just wasn’t a good student at school so I left with no qualification. From there I did bits and pieces trying to find my thread and literally when straight into the music industry from then to 2008.

So were you doing anything entrepreneur related? I guess the music industry is a little entrepreneurial.

Yeh, I draw lots of parallels with the two. When I was in the music industry I started in the 90’s when we were selling vinyl. My main business is Amazon FBA which is about products but when you’re selling products, even though I was a recording artist engineer, had my own record label, you still had to market and sell records.

We used to do compilations back then. We used to create and sell compilations to big stores and had to create music from the heart which would inevitability create your own audience so we had to continue making music for our audience.

So I draw a lot of parallels between that and Amazon FBA today. Instead of sitting in the studio and making a record, I’m in front of my iMac and doing various different to creative processes that accumulate to an end product which is like making a load of tracks and trying to create an album and give them a theme and trying to work out who your market is and deliver them a product.

We would deal with exporters and importers so you can imagine I had a great career in dance music, I was on Kiss, I was on a tour of Australia, my agent was based in Sydney and I played in Perth, Sydney, Adelaide, etc.

Good point you brought up, As an artist you do have a product you create but you still need to get it to an audience. A big part of business is marketing, collaborating, guest posting when your blogging, etc.

Definitely. From there to 2008 I was a DJ and music artist recording labels. From then onwards I set up an online magazine/social network. That was when Myspace was still around and FaceBook was just starting out.

It was interesting to see how, when FaceBook came, how quickly obsolete Myspace became, it just kind of took over everything.

We were kind of the first to try it but it required the whole feat of bringing the whole music industry on and at the same time, all of their fans on, and at the same time getting them to engage in the community which is a big ask which is where it failed.

We then improved upon and remodelled it to remove the social aspect of it and done price comparison of primary and secondary market tickets. At any one time we had 100,000 feeds of tickets which would tell you where to buy them on the primary and secondary markets and what the costs were. They were regimented and safe to buy from.

So in 2010 we closed it down. From there I learned a lot about conversion optimisation, social media, email marketing, etc. This is when the music industry was declining and online was eating everything up.

I had to learn everything from scratch and it was an immense learning curve.

Through that period I ran marketing agencies, sold tickets where we’d raise money and developed more of the PPC side of things.

I discovered Amazon FBA on the 28th of February just two years ago which blew my socks off.

I realised I don’t need anything, just a laptop, good internet and a budget and I could build something along the lines of building a product.

The whole appeal to me was you could build a whole product without a massive team and you could scale it up and down. What Amazon did was basically broke down the barriers of entry to launching a product.

This leads me into Merch by Amazon.

I hope people that are listening to this podcast realise that the whole business thing is a journey. You don’t know where you start or what you start with but most of the times you end up doing something completely different 2 years down the track and 2 years after that.

What I am now as a business person wasn’t the same person as I was in the music industry. Even though I was making music and running labels, I was more of an artist than a business person. I learned more about business after the loss of that company. We lost half a million pounds.

It was a tough position to be in but I learnt a lot from that experience. I learnt to think things through and understand the aspects of planning, etc.

Do you think anyone can be a business person or is it just for a selected few? Can you learn to be one?

I think entrepreneurship is in everyone but you need to learn business skills to be a business person.

So you can run a label but it doesn’t mean you have good business acumen to run it well.

Another thing you mentioned was that, ‘you stumble across things’. The reason I found Amazon was because I found it by mistakes. I wanted to get into doing products so I looked at eBay, took a lot of random things around the house, took photographs, walked to the end of my road with all my packages to go post them off and realised the post office moved. At that point I realised it’s not scaleable because the nearest post office was 2-3 miles away.

It told me this marketplace is no good for me because I have to keep going to the post office all the times. So I went back to the eBay forums and that’s where I found Amazon FBA and I was amazed.

Any place where the whole delivery phase is taken care of and you just need to focus on the product it just screams scaleability.

There’s already many things to worry about to get a product to market, the last thing you want to do is be handling customer care, moving boxes around, etc.

What’s going to make you money is creating those products, marketing them, creating visibility and creating those touch points to the customer so you have a product market fit.

Ok, let’s talk about your habits, you obviously do a lot of things. How do you manage that? Are you very process oriented?

I’ve had a lot of issues with my stomach which has lead me to reduce my intake of carbohydrates which makes things a lot easier, I retain energy, less tired etc.

I basically don’t have an alarm clock. I naturally get up around 4-5am, naturally.

Is that something that’s just happened over the years?

Yes, over the last couple of years. If anyone understands anything about the keitogenic diet, its’ kind of like the cavemen but generally if your body runs on carbohydrates or fats, it has different attributes on how it effects you so I usually wake up ready to go.

So I don’t set up an alarm clock so I can wake up ready and naturally.

I don’t drink alcohol or have caffeine. So that helps.

When I wake up at 4am I fast to about 10am so I can keep the buzz and not put much drain in your body so I can get a terrific amount of work in before things really start so that part of my day is my most productive.

Any creativity or design work, they are the best time for me, in the morning and when everyone else’s day starts, I’m ahead of the game. So when the phone starts ringing I know I can deal with them because I’ve got a big chunk of the work done.

Also, China is 7 hours ahead so it works out to me.

You’ve got to work out if you’re a morning person or evening person. I’ve optimised my sleeping. I wear certain ear plugs and eye masks and have kept my sleeping times consistent.

Interesting you mentioned the ketogenic diet, my friend mentioned it the other day.

Standard American diet is about 300g carbs a day. Keitogenic is about 25g net carbs. I’m more paleo because I go below 100g. Keitosis is when your body goes from operating on carbs to operating on fats.

Best thing to do is try and see how your body responds. Generally if you want to feel good, just reduce some of your carbs. Cut back and see how your body responds, if it’s good, work with it.

Many people that want to get into entrepreneurship will realise that it’s a lifestyle. I once tried the raw diet. Basically all you do is eat raw fruits, veggies and nuts. The premise is that you’re also eating the good bacteria that comes with organic food and avoiding process foods, sugars, processed carbs and I held that diet for 3-4 weeks.

I lost a lot of weight but I felt amazing. Waking up at 4am everyday, not taking a nap, not even feeling tired.

Exactly, something like that is hard to maintain. When you come off ketosis you can feel really lethargic etc and lose weight.

It’s better to commit to a lifestyle rather than saying you’re on a ‘diet’ so you’re not restricting yourself.

The moral of the story if that as an entrepreneur if you can put in 10-12 hours a day and you’ve optimised your sleep and your eating than you’ve got a better chance of being far more successful then someone who’s boozing everyday and eating poorly and not have the brain capacity to manage this.

When you feel good the stress is less.

You’d rather do great work for 4 hours than 10 hours of just pushing the mouse around.

I remember when I was getting into business I asked my friends that were employed at the time, how much time do they actually spend doing actual work. I know we all go to work for 8-10 hours but a lot of them responded with between 3-4 hours.

You’re usually working at about 40% efficiency because we’re only human.

I found out about Merch by Amazon some time last year. How did you stumble upon Merch by Amazon and what was attractive about it?

When I stumbled upon Merch by Amazon, I read about it on reddit which I thought was interesting. I got into it about April last year. It took about 2 months to be accepted.

I found out by mistake, I logged into my FBA Seller Central and accidentally clicked on another tab that took me to Merch by Amazon.

Let’s get into why and what’s the difference between FBA.

We’ll start of with ‘What is Merch By Amazon’

Merch By Amazon is a POD, (Print on Demand) system where you sell on Amazon and get paid on a royalty basis. So if you list something for $19.99, Amazon takes their 15% listing fee and raw costs so you walk away with about 38-40% which is about $7 on a $20 shirt.

Signing up is pretty straight forward but there’s a delay due to the bottle necking.

So you provide them with a design and the content for the listing.

When you do that, is your design available in just US Amazon or all around the world?

There’s talks of it rolling out in England and a few person testing it. So it’s in the US in the moment.

Do you think it’s still relatively new?

Yes, but everyone is starting to jump on it now but it’s a bit like the wild west where the barrier to entry is low and anyone can do it.

Whereas if you run an FBA business and if you have to invest in products and manufacturing then that knocks a large chunk of people out of the market place who don’t have the funds or sometimes they don’t want to take the risk.

I think Merch by Amazon is just easy to get into.

But there’s the upsides and downsides.

The upsides are many, you can build 1000’s of SKU’s long term, you’ve got no set up costs, we believe it will go worldwide at some stage which is why we’re getting into it so we can extrapolate all that data and translate all of our designs into that market.

We believe at some point they will turn on PPC which is not available on Merch by Amazon right now.

Basically you have to drive external traffic or you just sit there and wait for magic to happen organically.

But there’s a benefit with PPC that helps your ranking. For example, when I launch new campaigns, I run my PPC campaign in red because I need to build sales which effect my rankings. You get ranking love from selling from certain keywords which helps visibility so I run hard into the red and go after major keywords that are relevant to my product, get them to convert and then organically I start to rank.

You have to always start at the bottom, what I call ‘the Amazon Jungle’ so if you have no sales you have no visibility so if you’re using certain ranking tools like Amshark it will say something like -300 so you’re not on the first 300 places on search pages and then suddenly they start to appear. When you compare certain keywords that have done well on PPC then you start to see them appear organically for the same keywords.

This isn’t the case on Adwords. They’re way ahead of the game and they don’t need to give power to you to effect their organic rankings. Google are in the driving seat.

Amazon are different. If you look at what Amazon sell and their listings you will notice they favor their own products. 60% of the main keywords, if they are sold by Amazon, they’ve got the best rankings.

Basically we’re just sourcing agents for Amazon. Amazon will not stop to just look at your product, source it and trash the profit margin so you bounce out. They will rank their own products on higher positions with complete disregard to make it fair.

So your visibility options are hope and pray it sells. But what’s been working for most people is volume. Basically the more you put up the more chance you have to sell. It’s the 80-20 rule. You might find that 80% of your shirts don’t sell. 20% do sell and 10% are selling any kind of volume.

You’ll find that it’s random. Sometimes shirts just pick up because some affiliate has decided to promote it or Amazon has put it in some sort of promotion.

One thing you can do is run FaceBook ads, Pinterest ads, etc. I know on Pinterest we run an associates ad, (Amazon Affiliate), so we can capture the data because basically it’s an Amazon product not your product so you can run traffic to the product and run your campaign.

You can get clicks and information data once people move from pinterest to Amazon and you can look at conversion data. Cost per click can be expensive unless you know what you’re doing.

So for new sellers would you advise them to work on volume and not spend too much time trying to find the perfect shirt.

It’s always important to research and find good keywords and write decent listings. All of those points contribute greatly to your sales but if you put up loads of junk shirts and listings with no information, one, people won’t be able to search for them as there’s no data to index and two, it looks horrible so it will have little trust with people so you’ll struggle with sales.

You’re better off going after niches and coming up with themes. So if you want to do fruit shirts you might do Apples, Oranges and Pears for instance if that was your thing. What you have to understand is you have to test the market to see if theirs a niche there and if you’re able to rank.

Now there’s a process I utilise when I think about these things. Now, Amazon Data like frequency of sales makes an impact on your rankings. That creates visibility, which lead to click through rates and ultimately conversions.

So what you want to do is make sure you have a decent quality. On the flipside of this, the volume game becomes more difficult.

Let’s talk the tiering system.

For those that don’t know what that is, it’s basically how many shirts Amazon allows you to list.

When you sign up you could list 25 shirts, once you sell 25 shirts or so, it will tier you up so you can list more. However, once people started to just tier up and sling up anything on a daily basis to do the volume game, it flooded Amazon with junk.

So what Amazon did was put a cap on how many you can list and add a tiering process. You’ll find that you can only upload 2 shirts or 3 shirts or 5 shirts a day depending on your tier.

They’ve also introduced a 60 day window. If your T shirt doesn’t sell in those 60 days, they’d take it down so your numbers start to drop so everyone’s gone down the route of text only shirts and they’d make and upload a tonne of variations and flood the marketplace.

There’s also the wild wild west. There are people that would jump on peoples listings to get additional sales. For example you’ve got a shop name and you might have half a dozen t shirts under your shop name. Basically what people do is copy your listing and list the item in your shop and lower the price.

There’s the upsides and the downsides. If you’ve got something where you lower the barrier to entry ie, there’s no cost barrier, then you’re going to get a load of people clogging up the system and you’ll be just fighting for visibility

I’ve also heard that some people drop the price real low to get more sales which leads to more rankings.

Yeh so the idea is you create BSR, (best seller rank), you get those once you start selling. So if you jump into a store and lower the price then what happens is people will obviously buy the lower price one which will help their ranking juice, create more visibility, sell more t shirts and then they up the price. Hence the leaching.

However, I believe there will be a shakeout where once they introduce PPC, 75-80% of the market have the mindset where they don’t want to pay anything, (one man band), they don’t like to spend money to make money. They’re going to get obliterated.

What’s going to happen is someone is going to come into the market, pay for PPC and beat others and eventually they’ll fall off.

Then it should roll out to different markets. It’s about going where the puck is going, not where the puck is at.

What I discovered is, let’s say Trump says some outrageous quote and people go to Amazon and search for this shirt, if you’re the first to get this shirt up then people start to buy those so as more and more people come to the market, the further they come down the pages, the harder it is for them to get conversions because they have less visibility.

So what you’re doing is hedging a bet. You’re saying that someone is going to come in and search for those so if I’m first to market, I get visibility that which will lead to possibly sell. So you’ll have a hit ratio so it happens to about only 20% of shirts you put up. So again, it’s a gamble. It’s not process driven where you can manage the statistics.

I can speak first hand with that experience where I had a shirt that did well because there was just a lot of search volume coming towards that shirt. A lot of people were selling it on Teespring but I was one of the first to sell it on Google Adwords so I was paying almost nothing for clicks but lots of people were converting.

I was doing just $200 – $300 days for about 3 months just from that shirt.

What you have to find is product-market fit for the customer. You need to work out what is the theme there and what is going to work. It’s ok doing Trump shirts but they have a shelf life but everyone has a birthday everyday.

You want to be looking for evergreen shirts which is not easy but as long as you’re consistent and work at it you’ll find them.

So for someone that has just got their Amazon Account approved, you would tell them to just focus on listing shirts?

I’ll break down the key components.

As I got further down the road, I bought in my business partner. He does all the copyrighting and comes up with the concepts and in turn he’s bought on a designer and now we’ve split the business 3 ways. Because I’d rather have 33% of the business of having high quality.

So, we’ve got a great designer, a great copy writer and I believe I hold myself real well in terms of digital marketing. So we’ve put a team together that focus on the fundamentals.

So it goes back to that concept, are you willing to spend. So I’d rather give away 33% to 2 roles of the business and then I’d focus on my lane and what I’m good at and I’d recommend that to other people.

If you’re a marketer set up your account, team up with a designer, generate the ideas, bounce off each other. You can go on to fiverr and onlinejobs.ph but they’d never put the love and care that you would or someone that is invested in the business.

So I would say that those are the key components. Do that and work on quality. Because it does take time and the reason I work in themes is because you’re better off doing your research and generating 10 t shirts that you are doing the one off t shirts. It depends on your moral compass. People do those ‘pray for orlando or pay for so and so’. Ethically I think that’s quite poor and that attracts the type of people around you.

You’re better off finding more safer niches so you can build upon something. Focus on quality over quantity even though it’s a volume game.

Eventually, Amazon will roll out PPC or something to create visibility.

Think logically, this is print on demand. So once they open up in different markets you can just take all your designs and transfer them across so it’s a longer bet.

People are making good money on Merch but I think when there’s no real way of systemising then you’ll lose out.

If you’ve never started a business before I believe Merch By Amazon is a great opportunity to get into at a low cost, to set up, and then you can decide to take it to the next level.

You might decide to take the knowledge you gained from this and start an FBA business. You can go to China, take that money, flip that money and put it in to something else that can generate more money.

I think the positioning thing is really important. I know it’s a big focus to you to learn the system so you can expand when the opportunity comes by. There’s so many expansion points, they can go to different countries, they can even expand to different products like hats, mugs, mouse pads, etc.

Amazon is going to come out with that at some point. They’re just learning it for now and then they’ll scale it. They’ll work out where all the touch points are and then they’ll scale it and that’s why it’s good to get in now.

The most people that survive these are those that got in early so they’re ahead.

I think as it gets more competitive, those that have systems in place will survive. I know when I was doing Teespring where you had to drive your own traffic. I was learning it on a forum where there was another guy who had 4 or 5 people in his team. I did about half a million in sales but he did about 2-3 million and he was just killing me. He had a full time researcher, a full time designer who were all working in house and he would just be killing it.

He had such a good system in place where he’d be the first with a tonne of designs when something trendy came out.

I’ll be honest with you, my number one priority is my FBA business but that’s why we split the business 3 ways which allows us to work on our priorities.

I also like the whole concept of translations you mentioned. I pretty much tested every country there was to test on FaceBook, about 150 countries. A lot of them performed well in some countries. Just translate shirts that work well in America, a simple translation from onehourtranslations.com is enough, in most cases you can sell it in Brazil, South America in general, euro countries, Russia, etc.

So if this does expand in that way and you position yourself well then I think there’s a lot of money to be made.

Once you put your shirt on Amazon, what controls do you have? Are you able to give discounts, run promos, etc? What do Amazon restrict and what do they allow?

Let’s do a comparison to a normal FBA business, you don’t have contact with the customer, there’s no sequence you can run like an email. You used to be able to ask for a review, you don’t have that or PPC on merch.

You only get about 200 characters on your title.

You get 2 bullet points instead of 5 bullet points.

You’re limited on your backend, you’ve got no email sequence.

You’ve got control of the price so you can bring it down next to nothing which is one way to get some sales. Get some sales, get a BSR, get some rankings going, increase the price over time to get more sales.

Say someone wants to start a full time business on Merch by Amazon, should they?

Don’t. Start is as a part time business and then move into it full time as you start to earn revenue. You want to mitigate some of your risk. So what I would say is start using merch, start getting some sales and then expand to different platforms if you can.

So if you do the 80-20 rule and work on volume and list on 10-12 different platforms you might make a steady income.

Or you can nail a category and smash it out of the park. Do about $60k a year.

Do you thing it’s good to focus on a niche?

A niche or a theme. For example a niche would be martial arts but a theme would be karate.

So it’s good to test different themes and niches so you can see which work.

Any tools you use to get you ahead of the game?

I was using amstracker to track all the keywords but then I switched to ams keyword rank tool. I don’t know if it’s still available but basically I can track 100’s of keywords and the cost of the tool is low.

Amazon doesn’t give you that data?

Nope. There’s no backend data.

There’s another tool that’s a bit more expensive, it’s called keyword trends tool, done but keywordinspector.com which is about $40 a month. This has an algorithm that does guestimations of search volumes of keywords so they put in info from Amazon to tell you what keywords are making sales.

This can be quite handy as it tells you search volumes. You need to find something in the middle that’s not so high it will be competitive but also not so low that it will not generate sales.

There’s another tool I use called helium10. What you can do is take all your keywords and truncate them down into single words. So if you have a load of phrases, it removes duplicates and doubles.

Two parts of this tool is you have an input section where you got all your list of keywords as single words and so as you start to write your description, these words start to disappear in your panel so the whole point is you don’t have to use duplicate words in your listing.

So in the end you have no keywords left in the least meaning you’ve used them all or otherwise it’s really hard. So that’s a paid tool.

Another tool I use is pixlr, canva, photoshop. Nowadays photoshop is only $7 a month and pixlr is around $10 per month so I use both of them but mainly I have a designer.

There’s a software called merch power.

 

If you want to find out more information check out the Merch by Amazon FaceBook group which is run by Chris Green. Chris Green is like THE go to guy in this world. He’s really the established player. I see him as the market leader. His group has about 20k followers on that FaceBook group so you can join that to get a bit of a feel on things.

So he has a course?

 

I paid about $9.99 for one of his courses which if it’s still the same, it’s definitely proper value for money.

I like to speed read and learn stuff fast so that got me up and running. I think it’s selling on udemy. That’s helpful to get yourself going on a budget.

If I need to learn stuff rapidly, I like to speed read stuff, look at different areas and scan them by starting from the index. Sometimes I go to reddit, quora or FaceBook groups and those are my first parts of learning and of course udemy because sometimes you get a massive discount.

Is there any big lessons you learned on things to ‘not do’ for Merch by Amazon?

  • Don’t go after popular shirts just for the sake of going after them because you won’t rank anywhere. If you’re going to do this, spend effort on design.
  • Simple works best.
  • Focus on darker colors like Black and Blue for the color of the shirts.

You don’t have control over the color of the shirt because let’s say you do black, blue and lime yellow, Amazon might decide to use your main shirt as lime yellow so you’ll have issues with reading text and you’ll limit your market place.

The most popular shirt seems to be anvil as opposed to fitted shirts.

I would say to stay away from ambulance chasing, meaning, don’t go after disasters and stuff, I think Amazon will crack down on those.

Also, do a search for copyright on tess2.uspto.gov. You can check for trademark on your phrases on that. Don’t be going after trademarked terms or brand named shirts eg, Nike Jordan, etc or you’ll get slapped by Amazon.

Sometimes people register T shirts without anyone knowing so you don’t want your account banned unnecessarily.

Find great people around you because it is a grind. Always make sure you have good quality and don’t use capital letters to make your listing look spammy.

Just be thoughtful, informative and add value to the ecosystem.

I think it’s worth checking out the top selling shirts to see how they design it.

Of course. Reverse engineer. Start doing research on funny shirts like Trump shirts, etc. Find some common ground in what they are doing. You might design the best designs in the world but your copy is bad so you don’t get any visibility and no one will see your wonderfull designs.

Whereas you can have an ok design with great copywriting and research but sell more.

I found there was a difference between shirts that sold well for males and those that sold well for females.

I found guys didn’t care about the design that much even if it was just white text on a black shirt but was funny, it would sell well but girls needed it to have some class to it along with the phrase.

But on the flipside to that, we have some funny shirts like this dog shirt that was terrible. Literally a cut out picture of a dog and we still laugh about it now. It sells like hot cakes. Every time it sells we have a laugh about it.

Sometimes the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes poor designs sell.

That’s the cool thing about business and so everything opens up when you realise that everything has a chance of working so put aside your assumptions and test it. A lot of designs that worked well for me were sometimes shirts I thought wouldn’t do well but they did and many designs I thought would do great, flopped.

It’s about what the people think. What we do is supply and demand.

I remember I once made 1-200 different variations of a shirt and I found the pocket it worked best in was for people that had pets. Like chickens, horses, reptiles, so you just don’t know what works until you test it.

Do you have any resources that we can learn on?

There’s a couple. I have DannyMcmillan.com which is my blog and where I do my public speaking. I have some tools on there but they’re mostly for Amazon FBA.

I have a tool for getting your money back from Amazon, a spreadsheet to get back all your costs for your business.

A PPC tool where you cut and past your PPC results from Amazon and it will give you pointers to what keywords to optimise.

I also have a webinar called seller sessions where we bring on the biggest names in the game every couple of weeks what we share on a granular level.

We expose a lot of stuff behind the scenes for what a lot of people would pay to go to a master mind or go on a course to get.

That runs every couple of weeks. We focus on marketing on and off Amazon and it’s for more advanced sellers as opposed to new ones. It’s on a Wednesday every 2 weeks.

I think it’s important that there are people that focus on the specifics that go deep into certain topics.

Exactly. We’ve covered PPC in 2017, we also done scaling where we brought in 3 seven figure sellers that shared their tips. They’re doing about 20 Million between them per year.

We also done listing optimisation where we talk about everything in the URL like how to optimise for mobile, images, image processing, telling a story, everything.

We also done Amazon Marketing Services. How to get into that from AMS and how to utilise that on the Amazon Platform. Because most people don’t have vendor access so we went through how to get in there and how to get in the same pages of your competitiors.

So others can do all the effort of ranking and getting visibility but you can swoop in and get the sale by sitting directly underneath the buy box.

The next one we’re doing is Adwords for Amazon Sellers. There’s some tricks and how we can get Amazon to take over the PPC on your behalf so you can stop spending money on the majority of the keywords.

This podcast is all about content so it’s refreshing that you’re not being pitched to.

Do you record your webinars?

We’ve got a fanbase we communicate through on email who can then sign up through our landing page and later access it on Youtube and ask questions there.

Ok, I think we’ll end it there, Thank you for coming on the show.

Pleasure, thank you for having me.

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